In May, the second face-to-face KAICIID training was conducted in Bangkok, Thailand. Once we arrived at the Royal Orchard Sheraton Hotel, the programme started with an initial gathering and catching up with everybody. It was so good to see everyone physically again. But the training was mind-blowing. Some of the lessons included interworldview dialogue (IWVD), dialogue design and facilitation, intercultural communication, and site visit as a pedagogical tool for interreligious dialogue. We also got the opportunity to experience Bangkok with its hot sunny weather. There were so many events to reflect upon.

The final session was one of the most impactful. It was to practice the ‘Fishbowl Conversation.’ For the session a topic has to be decided, and the group will be divided into the inner and other groups. For the topic, the facilitator opened up to suggested. I wanted to learn more about Buddhism since we were in Thailand. But there was one participant insisting on a critical discourse on religion and the female gender. We proceed with this one because the participant was so passionate about the topic.

The facilitator then introduced the fishbowl conversation method, where five volunteered to be part of the inner circle, whereas the others would be placed around and listening attentively without the power to engage in the conversation. If they wish to participate, they need to tap the person inside the circle and be allowed to exchange seat with any of the five.

The session began with the proposer’s topic: Should religion be criticized and even removed from the conversation on development? Often, women and children are victimised in the name of upholding the religion, e.g. honour killing, forced marriage, and forced sterilisation. So, if the world is to develop, should religion be removed?

There was no clear answer, even towards the end. The first one to respond was a Father, who acknowledged that atrocities are happening in the name of religion, like the case of Boko Haram. Another female Christian also resonated with further acknowledgement that religion were being used to hinder development. Next, a female Rabbi added her own story of gender discrimination when she was a young girl. She noticed that there were limited spaces and roles female can participate, even though she was well-qualified. The case of her father’s death was powerful. She offered to say the prayers for the departed, but was denied simply because of her gender. Rather, a “stranger” took on the role, as per religious custom, to read for the departed. Really, a lot of the religious practices are gendered, which we all acknowledged. Also, we shared the pain of women being suppressed due to their gender. We agreed these things should not be happening if we were to develop collectively.

Then came my turn, not knowing what is the right thing to say. I knew the issue was not only relating to the religio-cultural systems we are conditioned in. Rather, I believed that individual agency are most powerful to change systems. This is what I brought to the discussion amongst the inner circle, not knowing what the outcome would look like:

• Ask and Listen to Steadfast Heart

In the beginning, I made a disclaimer that I am bring my hat as a heart-centered Islamic life coaching practitioner. Then, I continued with what I believe: that every religion place emphasis on the heart as one of the most powerful thing we have in our possession, and we can use it to change the world. This is especially true for “religious leaders” in a community. Then, I emphasized one of the important functions of the spiritual heart: the supremacy of the heart over the head in decision-making process, based on the following Prophetic saying: “istafti qalbak” (Ask your heart!). If you do so, there can be two outcomes:

1. If the decision is sound, then the heart will feel at ease;
2. If the decision is not right, then the heart will be disturbed (e.g. with guilt, jealousy, hatred).

So I reminded everyone to bolster their effort for self-dialogue in the faces of the ever-shifting landscape with destructions all around. Ask and listen to our steadfast heart.

• Change Within to Change the World

After addressing individual agency, I continued with my reflection on changing the systems all around us. Again, the heart is emphasized here, and I shared a Qur’anic verse about changing the world comes with changing ourselves first. This is the main formula for change management that I often use. I then gave everyone the illustration of being surrounded by many of the darknesses in the form of corruptions and destructions. We often get drawn by them, and get affected by it with the feeling of helplessness and despair. “Look inside our hearts,” I said. “I believe all of us are the lights that the world needs. That is why we are here to train ourselves for dialogue, so that we can shine brighter to fight against these darknesses.”

I looked at the original proposer, and the person keeps on nodding and nodding to what I said. And I said to myself, “Okay, whatever I said seems to work,” laughing to myself due to nervousness but with conviction, perhaps.

Afterwards, the mood lightens up before going into another plunge, partly due to observers tapping into the dialogue session with many additional things to say, but perhaps less caring of the relationship among the dialogue members that should have been preserved. This led to further opening of the Pandora box that seems to be endless. At this stage, I was still the fish inside the bowl, but quietly observing, still unsure about where is the light at the end of the dialogue tunnel. The proposer then tapped out, and at this stage, the organizer called for a halt in the session.

• Feedback to my earlier points

Afterwards, everyone took a break before reconvening for a debriefing. I got many valuable feedbacks:

1. A Jew came and said that my intonation was slow, careful and deliberate
2. A Father said I have converted everyone with what I have said
3. A Rabbi said that the ‘light’ analogy was powerful
4. An Organizer echoed that light and darkness analogies.

Many people resonated with one another. We cared for one another, and the level of heart-resonance was very powerful at the time. I had to laugh just to shake the energy off. But the session convinced me that my heart-centered Islamic governance and life coaching approaches are needed for the world.

Effective Fishbowl Conversation

There are some points to take note for a powerful conversation, whether its based on the fishbowl conversation method or others:

1. Clarify different roles and hats: When having a conversation on a very difficult topic with many intersectionality, the participants should clarify their perspectives, identities, roles and hats they are wearing. Doing so can help build bridges and common understanding.
2. Utilise slow and deliberate speech: Pace and intonations affect the quality of the conversation. Experiment with a mix of slow and fast-paced conversations to highlight different dimensions, e.g. attentive vs excitement. My preference for deep conversation is slow and deliberate, allowing for reflection during pauses. These pauses can be considered as strategic breaks as well.
3. Show care and kindness: As part of appreciative inquiry, care and kindness goes a long way, especially for those engaged in dialogue. Additionally, the fishbowl conversation method also allow for an additional layer of compassionate listening, which leads to transformation for more people.
4. Be critical of religions and cultures: Conversations surrounding religion and dialogue can range from being simplistic to very complex. Some would posit that religion is important, whilst others do not. What is more important is how to arrive at a sound conclusion for ourselves as well as others, so that all parties benefit. This is where criticality of religion and culture helps to deepen conviction and understanding.

More caring conversations and dialogues are needed, especially in a divided society. Doing so can help to unite more hearts.